Originally by: Lusulpher

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Edited by: Lusulpher on 26/10/2008 10:45:03
If people are seriously cancelling their alts over this AND quitting, please send me your stuff...

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Originally by: Bimjo

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so is this plugging of a "loophole" to allow skill queueing in future ?

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Originally by: Richard Aiel

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Originally by: Fawziyyah

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There is a nice way for CCP make up to us...

Just permit multiple char training and multiple client run with one account.


That's my point.

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Dude in the answers thread sez flat out they are NOT doing anything with skill training.

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Originally by: Kain D'Worker

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I've usually had 5 to 11 accounts active over the last 5,5 years. For the last year 11 accounts. I've been using this training thingy a lot over the last 6 months but not before that time. This is gonna hit me hard and will force me to close down at least 6 accounts. This will ofcorse force me also to think "will I keep playing the game" and to tell you (ccp) the truth I'm thinking more and more about just quiting the game.

This so called error was the one thing keeping me going in this game (over the last months that is). I found this to ba a awsome tool for those who wanted a short brake from the game.

I strongly urge you to reconsider your so called fix for this error and just let it be, this is acually a good error.

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Originally by: Fawziyyah

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Now it's a great time for CCP anounce a new promotion...

-- Power of Three --

With two accounts you get one for free

Don't forget tomorrows STRIKE DAY

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Originally by: Lorac Caladon

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Please don't discuss the forum moderation here. To discuss problems or concerns, please send an e-mail to: [email protected]. Applebabe

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Originally by: Candice Dice

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My long lasting impressions? Make sure everyone i know on forums, other MMO's I play KNOW how bad this game direction/dev team is going.

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Originally by: Razzlee

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Edited by: Razzlee on 03/11/2008 17:47:03

Originally by: Grez

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How exactly is CCP ****ting on the customer?

If anything, we've had this freebie for 4 years now. We should thank them for giving it to us for that long. So what if it was called a feature - they want to change it and they have. You cannot blame them for wanting to make a bit more cash in this financially **** time we're in.

Grow up.

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You know, you might want to try reading at least a few pages of this thread before making an idiotic statement such as this. This move is going to do the exact opposite of what they intended. It's going to cost them LOTS of cash.

There will be large number of individuals never reactivating alt accounts that at least used to be active 6+ months out of the year.(What is better, an account that is active and paying 7 or 8 months out of the year or one that is active 0 months out of the year?) .

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Originally by: Darkeen

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Hello,

Anyone who wants to quit due to this change in Eve, give me your stuff. I'll put it in GSC's/Station containers. if you want to come back, I'll give it back toyou.

Of course I'll use it to invest and gain more Isk but you can have your stuff back if you really want to come back.

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Originally by: Richard Aiel

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anyone else just waitin for the *click* from CCP on this thread?

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Originally by: Delos Korelian

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Well, lately I have been rather lackluster about logging into eve or playing the game. I am sort of biding my time till my subscription expires on the 31st of December. I know, rather long time to wait, but that's what I get for paying in advance.

What I am really paying attention to is the Quantum Rise thread and the disaster the so called expansion is turning out to be. Most interesting is the whinage from a number of fanboys who took the party line of "Ghost Training" was "unfair "and bad for the game" are now whetting themselves there, complaining of how evil CCP is.

Someone in this thread mentioned that given time CCP will do something to upset even greater number of players, even the fan boys, and I honestly feel that this time is now. There is so much that has been completely wrung out and taken apart and put back together again in the last year, there is so much backlash at the poor customer service and communication, there seems to be too many new people running this game who simply have no clue how the game was working before, and finally, it is clear and glaring that the almighty dollar/pound/euro has completely overtaken the CCP as a company.

Where the game was created and ran by a few very idealistic individuals, with clear and very unorthodox vision for the game, we are now faced with replacements who are seeing this game as a short term cash cow, something to capitalize on as quickly as possible, and then left to limp on its own.

The short term gains of revenue has clearly overtaken the long and thoughtful approach which used to be practiced by the developer team.
More and more I see disenchantment, more and more I see people who come and go. More and more I see people lose interest in playing EVE due to the erratic behavior of the developers.

The gimmicks have replaced the content, the quantity has replaced quality, attention to the customer has been replaced by pettiness and robotic responses to the petitions. Community suggestions not listened to, a veneer of transparency created by CSM, and yet the actual player body is neutered by CCP and remains largely a show for the ignorant public.

Maybe I am just depressed that the game I loved so much, and people who ran it, whom I respected so much, is no longer the "best ever MMORPG out there," maybe I am depressed due to too many lies, too many "mistakes," too many half truths, and too many, and long ignored, issues, which are being swept under the rug, and covered up with massive verbiage with very little substance by CCP.

CCP got my money till the 31st, I can't help that, then I shall sell everything I own, drop my security status to -1.1 and place all the ISK on my head as bounty, following that I think I will be spending my hard earned money somewhere else.

Until then I will watch the developments and see what happens to this world I loved so much for so long.

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Originally by: Sloeb

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Why not just allow simultaneous skill training of all 3 characters per account.

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Originally by: Darth Vaders

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Edited by: Darth Vaders on 13/11/2008 16:36:42

Originally by: Jinx Barker

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3) A referendum on the "Unsubscribed" training issue, where EVE players decide what they think by voting. Of course, a game wide eve-mail to every user with a "Yes/or No Question" - and then a tally.

Worst that happens, someone on the outside world would notice this thread, and CCP gets another: "Lying and deceiving developer team mark" in addition to the "cheating" developer team mark they already have.

I know I wont get true contrition, the "new" CCP never remorseful about anything, I know they will not discipline the lying #$@@!$%^ who pretty much insulted the community with their lies. And, if the referendum, an honest referendum ever happens in this game while I am still alive, I would whet myself.

So, for now, I will just try to embarrass at least an apology from the CCP.

Maybe one of the leading people there has a sense of decency, and will own up to their mistakes, and will apologize for the lies, and for the deceit, and for the misinformation.

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I could have "cheated" using that trick with the ghost training but i didn't do it cause i think it's LAME and in all honesty i feel that Eve online will be a better place without the kind of people that were doing that on purpose.

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Originally by: Corbin Swift

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Ok, I'm going to try a little thought experiment by exaggerating or amplifying the skill-completion nerf. A month ago CCP took one step in this direction. Now I'd like to ask a question to the players reading this who support the move.

Just suppose that in the future CCP were to start reversing skill training on inactive accounts, that is subtracting skill points from accounts that are inactive. So if you need to unsub for a couple of months for whatever reason, when you come back you are a couple of months behind where you left. This is a couple of steps further in the direction they have taken. By the flawed logic behind the current "bugfix" this should net them even more cash because people will be afraid to let the account lapse even if they are unable to log on for skill changes. The issue of tempting players to come back to Eve would become a non-issue because people would never leave, right?

When you fly in a fleet with friends, and you lose out on a few months training, it puts you in a similar situation to subtracting SP while inactive. At a guestimate, it is approximately 30%-40% as painful as my hypothetical extreme case, but it's painful nonetheless.

I'm not interested in arguing about this any longer, I've heard both sides of the current discussion and I know where I stand. But I'm curious if there are any readers who think that negative SP on inactive accounts would be a good change. If so, I'd really like to hear your reasoning. Please reply promptly as I have less than 2 days left on this account.

thanks,
Corbin

ps, It's a hypothetical question/thought experiment so please spare me the posts saying that it would never happen.

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Originally by: Doctor Penguin

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This thread is STILL GOING?

Sheesh. It's a game. It's not worth spending your time here mindlessly mashing out Why CCP is wrong: Part CXIV

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Originally by: Betty Bloodspatter

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..stuff..

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Originally by: Saberon

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Edited by: Saberon on 19/11/2008 14:44:26
OMG... I can just say OMG...

Do I see 186 pages of players whining and crying that CCP don't let them play the game for free?!)

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Originally by: Saberon

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It was a sarcastic remark

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Originally by: 8Z 6

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I didnt read this entire 8-thousand page thread but at some point ill skim through it probably.

To CCCP: I am currently, and temporarily, running one account. Which will be closed shortly as well. (no, you cant have my stuff.) Ive been playing with 5 constantly active accounts and a total of about 14 which I used for various purposes, such as dedicated super capital pilots, dedicated industrialist, dedicated miner, etc etc. Due to the exorbitant cost of running so many accounts I sometimes set one for long-term training and let it expire. This practice costs nothing to CCCP...the account is not being used, doesnt take bandwidth or cause server load, and it encourages the player to eventually reactivate the subscription. This has been a FEATURE since 2003 and for it to now be 'fixed' as per the explanation of the CCCP rep, it is nothing short of a crock of rectal excrement. Whomever came up with this plan of monumental mental ******ation failed to take into account the motivation of returning to a subscription that has been dormant for any number of reasons, such as vacation, lack of RL time to play, lack of funding, etc., and finding a skill trained.

If CCCP would like to verity this is not emoragequiting check the account info on this account and cross check it with other accounts with the same zip code, credit card info, address, name, etc. Also, most of my accounts have a character with the same name, derivatives of this accounts main character. (Yes, this is an alt.) I closed all my accounts in october upon the announcement of this abortion of an idea and only opened this one back up temporarily. Good job CCCP on removing yet another feature encouraging membership and customer loyaly. Ive seen a lot of long-term players quitting and selling their accounts for various reasons, this being one of them. Numbers of players logged on at one time may be high but my prediction is this wont last long. The current 'noob' subscribers will eventually see how appreciative CCCP isnt toward their customers and will follow suit.

From those of us about to quit...we salute you.

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Originally by: Zanpt

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Originally by: Kerfira

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...I at least understand that a company needs paying customers to survive, and that giving stuff away freely on a regular basis is not good business practice.

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You really must live in a cave. All types of businesses give all manner of stuff away for free... to attract first-time customers, to reward returning customers, to fill in slow days or seasons... to be competitive.

If you watched TV at all you would be deluged with ads offering "free" stuff, from discounts to low or no interest, to two-fers, etc. In my business we offer prospective customers a free trial of our product and we offer free lodging, meals and transportation for prospects and customers who visit us. All of that costs us, but it facilitates serious consideration of our product and helps increase sales. Unsubbed training, otoh, cost CCP nothing.

The incentive embodied in the unsubbed training was to reactivate accounts. That incentive is gone, and will most certainly impact the rate of reactivation. That was not a good business decision.

-7 accounts.

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Originally by: Farouq Rizer

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Looks like this thread is going to be dying off soon. I wonder if CCP has any room under the rug since I bet the t20 thread is taking alot of room.

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Originally by: Carl Druffee

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Originally by: Farouq Rizer

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Looks like this thread is going to be dying off soon. I wonder if CCP has any room under the rug since I bet the t20 thread is taking alot of room.

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There is no coincidence this thread is dying... most people stood by their threats of quitting and not tolerating being lied to.
And I guess they have no reason to get back into the game anymore...

I only have one account left now... Thanks for the 'power of two' and then ripping the rug from underneath our feet...

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Originally by: fried eggs

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The "mechanics" were never broken. CCP incorrectly (IMO) perceived a way to squeeze more money out of their customers and rendered a former "Feature" unusable.

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Originally by: Lord Fitz

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You can argue 'fair' all you like, that is a strawman arguement. The real questions are if it actually WILL increase CCP's revenue, which it won't, it will decrease it.

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Originally by: Squirrrel

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And while we're on the subject of old bugs:

http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=945010&page=1

4 years? Oh dear.

We've even got good old Ranger1 over there, touching his toes in support as per-usual.

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Originally by: Rooster Fish

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Originally by: "CCP"

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Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.

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I don't care that GT was disabled. Never used the feature. But it IS in the player guide.

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Originally by: Terces Yp's

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Originally by: Arakn1s

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Sc**w skill que, better give us the ability to train 2 chars on single account

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You understand how CCP promotes 'Power of Two' yes?

They certainly won't make any money implementing such a feature.
Those folk who recently bought a second account to train another
character... how potty would they go. This idea, not gonna happen.

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Originally by: Squirrrel

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Originally by: Nannu Who

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Originally by: Roto Rooter

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Originally by: Nannu Who

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...you understand that eve is in actual fact the one game you don't have to pay a dime or nickel to play...players who play the game can use in game currency to prolong their life in eve. I mean, isn't that pretty fantastic? You just use isk for your game time. Pretty sweet, and for that I shudder at the word that CCP are 'cut-throat' in their marketing approach in obtaining more revenue.

Smart eve players needn't pay a single $ bill to CCP.

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You do realize, don't you, that the GTCs bought by players for ISK first have to be bought by other players for RL money, right? Right? All that CCP cares about is that each GTC is fully paid for in RL money before it ever goes on the in-game market for ISK. The fact that it may be traded to another player doesn't change the fact that it was paid for.

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Your kiddin right!?!

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I think there are just crossed-purposes at work here.

Your orginal point was purely that EvE is great in that if you are smart about your gameplay you don't have to pay from your own wallet to play correct?

I assume that Roto was merely pointing out in the context of this thread that CCP are still getting the money off those smart players.

I still maintain that the GTC factor and character transfers are far from perfect due to the ability to manipulate and abuse the system.
Abuse it in the same manner that unsubbed training was I would wager.

Maybe it will eventually come to pass that GTC's and character transfers were unintended features and actually bugs too?

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Originally by: OffBeaT

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yea, ccp is doing the right think in this there is to many floating accounts now in eve + why should they get to cash in on five accounts they only payed half on and ccp lose on it.

pay you cheap skates and stop crying.
ccp needs the coin an i need a better eve that the cash will bring..

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Originally by: Becham

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I have to think that CCP could have handled this better. Perhaps they could have cut training time credited to unsubbed accounts in half, or leave things as is and give every subbed account a 500k bump on every other month of continual subscription. Altering a game mechanic that was "rampant" as they put it results in 196 pages of thread afterwards.

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Originally by: Kasak Black

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I'm not a heavy EVE user, I once was. I would play a good 30 hours a week, but now I can't as RL always gets in the way. However I still like to keep my character up to date with the latest skills etc.

I must say I am thoroughly disappointed that I will no longer be able to 'ghost train'. It was always a useful feature of EVE for me as I could keep Kasak ticking along with a long skill whilst I couldn't afford the money or time to keep my subscription running. Shame.

I'll still sub my account, and still take breaks when I need to, but it would have been nice to have Kasak skill constantly.

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Originally by: Kaladin Frostfire

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wonder.. when cccp goin to say "u need to be online for training skills.. when u go ofline skill training will be stopped" its not goin to suprise me

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Originally by: Mint Royale

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This threas is only 2,5 more pages away from disapearing due to a convinient SQL crash :)

However, I was pretty fun so see that pathetic 5 days for free offer ccp tossed at all the unsubbed accounts holder :)

I for one - as a response to this - got my mail adress removed from the newsletter!

But now I would really like to hear the spin of the cccp-fanboi brigade:
Fisrt you guys said unsubbed training is an exploit and unfair towards the ppl paying and playing 365 d/a.
How come cccp rewards the ppl who stopped their subscriptions with a full play 5 days for free offer?
Aren't you guys foaming out of your mouths already?

Oh and I really hope CCCP goes down like a wet bag of sand next year!

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